Conflicted about tuba choice

[bort2.0]

Yes, I buy and sell things a lot. Some of that is for my own curiosity and for fun, but some of it is also because I'm just not sure what I want and what fits my needs the best.

One nice thing about summer, is that when I'm not playing a lot, I get a chance to listen to a lot of old recordings and recent recordings and just things from across many many years to listen to how I've played and what I sound like. Largely, I don't think I've ever sounded better or worse than I have about 15 years ago. I mean that in a good way, but I also think it's interesting that my tuba selection has not really impacted things as much as I'd like to think. Mostly, it's been about what makes things easier for ME and not about the output from the bell

There are a bunch of tubas I've owned, but only a few that I seriously used. I've become conflicted about what parameters to use to make a selection decision long-term. Some highlights and thoughts on my more well-used tubas:

Miraphone 1291 -- everything about it was easy. Great sound, really easy to play, and recordings / in the hall were excellent. Clear and direct, and a big top-end I second guess this one a lot. I sold it only because I thought the sound was kind of bland and not as colorful as some of the handmade options that were available that I was trying at the time. And I still agree with that. But realistically, now.i know that really doesn't matter much in an ensemble. Comfortable to hold, easy to carry, and a good medium sized body. I used this horn a ton, and grab and go, it never let me down.

Miraphone 188 -- I love this for orchestra. Not as much for band. Good at everything but memorable for being by far the MOST comfortable tuba I've ever held or used. It's a lap dog. It's agreeable in every way. Wish for more top-end output, but love the sound it gives for orchestra. In band, I think it either gets lost or needs to be pushed to it's max too often. One of my all around favorites, that has never brought myself to buy another one.

Rudy 5/4 BBb -- THE SOUND! But obvious transport issues for me, which aren't going to get better. I love how it plays, but fear getting attached and then having to bail for physical reasons. Do i max out the time that I have, or do I take a more practical route to focus on longevity? And is the output really all that different out front and other things that I had like the 1291, which had a very big sound with a whole lot less effort.


Do I go for sound (to my perception)? Playability? Ergonomics? Transportability? Cool factor? (The 1291 is low cool factor to me)

Rambling and not wanting to change, but, my back hurts.

[Schlitzz]

Do I go for sound (to my perception)? Playability? Ergonomics? Transportability? Cool factor? (The 1291 is low cool factor to me)

Yup. Transportability is a long running joke. Just ask the people in the premier Army Bands. But I was only in the bar for 10 minutes.

[TubātōTubŏtō]

If your back hurts, it’s not the few minutes you’re carrying the tuba about, it’s the ___ hours your back is getting weaker per week.

I’d spin this around and say that you need to hit the gym. Not saying you need to get bulked up or anything, but a dude your age and sub-200lbs should have no problem picking up 300lbs off the floor.

This is something you could accomplish with about 12-15 hours a month of work that’ll pay a ton of dividends later for toting tubas, kids, etc as you progress through life.

We aren’t built to be static.

[jtm]

I don't believe I could ever pick up 300 lbs from the floor, even when I was in a college marching band. Must be doing it wrong.

[arpthark]

As someone who is prone to overanalyzing themselves... it sounds to me like you're kind of overanalyzing yourself.

Easy for me to say, but sell the Rudi and get a nice 188.

- arp "whose opinion is worth as much as you paid for it" thark

[bone-a-phone]

I do the same thing with trombones, and tubas to a lesser extent. I've bought dozens of trombones, but I've only kept 8 or 9. I have been known to buy then sell then buy again the same model. Even the same exact horn. To me, it's all about how the horn feels, and sometimes I forget how a horn felt, or I assume I've matured musically and now I can appreciate a Holton tr159 or an Olds P24g in my advanced years. I've decided that most sounds are good even if they are different, but there are only a few horns that I enjoy the feel of playing.

For tubas, I started with an old BBb, didn't even know what it was. Then I thought I wanted an Eb, sold that and got a 4/4 BBb, and that didn't work out, so I got a 3/4 BBb which is almost working, but I do find myself looking at F tubas from time to time...

Tubas are much more expensive to buy (and ship) than trombones, so I can tell that obsession isn't going to go very far.

[bloke]

If anyone knows of an extraordinary 300 pound tuba, I wouldn’t mind buying it.

… that’s about US$360, correct?

[TheBerlinerTuba]

I don't believe I could ever pick up 300 lbs from the floor, even when I was in a college marching band. Must be doing it wrong.

A typical 165lbs 20yo male could get to a 300lbs deadlift in about 3-6 months of scheduled training that would take about 45-60 minutes 3-4 times a week. This is a quite common result. Further, marching band isn’t hard work, despite what DCI et al state. It takes some conditioning and work, but it isn’t manual labor like bricklaying.

Most people are “doing it wrong”, e.g. working a job that has them sedentary for 40-60 hours a week. They might do some cardio exercise, which is good, to address a common concern (heart disease), but most overlook strengthening the rest of the body in a similar fashion.

Most people are amazed at how much less their backs hurt after they actually focus on making their backs (and the rest of their body) stronger.

[bloke]

If anyone knows of an extraordinary 300 pound tuba, I wouldn’t mind buying it.

… that’s about US$360, correct?

Smartassery aside, I’m sure the physical nature of your primary method of earning income is the reason why you’re left scratching your head when someone decades younger than you is concerned about carrying about something that’s 29lbs versus 24lbs.

[Schlitzz]

I don't believe I could ever pick up 300 lbs from the floor, even when I was in a college marching band. Must be doing it wrong.

Obviously, you've never been to the Manette Bar in Bremerton.

[York-aholic]

You bring up a good point Bort. Should we choose a tuba based on what it sounds like to us or to the audience? Ideally it should please both. However, unless we play solos on a semi-regular basis the question might be: a sound that pleases me or blends well with the ensembles I play in, orchestra vs band vs quintet.

Only you can answer that question. You might consider him much time you spend playing with an ensemble vs time spent playing on your own for your own enjoyment. I spend a larger amount of my playing time on my own practicing fundamentals, etudes, and pieces of music than I do playing in ensembles so that tips me towards a horn that I really enjoy the sound of. Fortunately, that horn seems to please the conductors and players in said ensembles but unless they were quite unhappy with it, I’d still stick with it as I really enjoy playing it on my own.

If most of your playing is done during ensemble rehearsals and concerts, perhaps what is heard from the podium and the seats might factor in more heavily than what is heard from under the bell.

Just a thought.

[Sousaswag]

I understand the back pain. I’m not that old, but when I was carrying the big tuba around every day, I was in some pretty bad back pain for a while, but I never let myself heal and dealt with it MUCH longer than I should have. Tuba in question was a 5450. I’ve solved that issue by:

A) not carrying the tuba on my back, instead just carrying it by my side,

and B) Going to the gym! Seriously, I really didn’t want to but I’m in much better shape and my back feels great now; it doesn’t hurt me after carrying a tuba anymore.

My answer to your question: it’d seem that you’re not entirely sure what you want, hence the question. You’ve owned just about everything. No tuba is going to be perfect. I have gripes about both of mine but I still love them both. I’d probably be asking myself a few questions:

What kinds of groups am I playing in? (Big? Keep the Rudy. Small? Do you really need that kind of firepower?)

How often are you playing? If you’re really only playing at home and the tuba’s not going anywhere, hell, own whatever you want

Sound vs ergonomics and transportability: I bought my MRP mostly because I loved the sound I made on it. That said, I don’t get it into a huge space as much as I’d like. At home, I pick up the F more often because I’m lazy and it doesn’t sound so dead. Regarding sound: Most people aren’t really going to care. They’re going to hear tuba, and that’s it. So, yes, I’m sure that Rudy makes a beautiful sound, but only us nerds here are going to comment on the color. I’d honestly disregard that and for you go purely for transport/comfort in this case.

I bring my F to most blind gigs I have because it’s smaller, and I’ll take the MRP if specified or numbers required it. My F is easier to take places and get into my house.

You always, always talk 188… that’s probably going to be my answer for you. Great at a LOT but master of none? Who cares! They’re great tubas, and much more portable. There’s my long-winded answer I hope that helps some.

[bort2.0]

Thanks everyone, keep it coming!

I should say though, I wasn't totally serious about the back pain. It's more like it's beyond cumbersome to get the Rudy around. Part of it is weight, part of it is size. I'm willing to deal with it for a while, just not sure what "a while" actually means though.

[edfirth]

Hey Brett, I've been giving this very thing alot of thought having just turned 70 with an extremely tempermental back. The horn that jumps out to me is that Eb "Tubby" that Wessex makes. Very managable size and weight but a nice big sound.There are plenty of reasons to talk oneself out of it....it's Eb, it's short,(although I kind of like that because you can hear yourself really well) I seem to remember you not being a fan of piston valves so that could certainly be a deal breaker but sound, portability, and ease of playing(the Eb thing again) could mabye make it worth a blow. Just a thought. Whatever you get will be fun. Happy shopping, Ed

[bloke]

whatever

[hrender]

Everything's a balance. I'm liking both horns I have, but they're both a little unwieldy. With my old knees carrying the Martin in its cases is likely not the best long term strategy. I'm starting to think a more 4/4 horn would have greater utility & longevity. Ed talked about moving towards a B&S 101 a while back, and I'm thinking something like that makes sense. Then there's always the 186...

[2nd tenor]

Thanks everyone, keep it coming!

I should say though, I wasn't totally serious about the back pain. It's more like it's beyond cumbersome to get the Rudy around. Part of it is weight, part of it is size. I'm willing to deal with it for a while, just not sure what "a while" actually means though.

It’s all a compromise in some way or other. For the type of playing that you expect to do in the future what is the range of pitches that will be demanded of you? There’s a lot that can be done with a four valve Eb and they certainly can be loud.

Besson Sovereign Eb as demonstrated by Patrick Harrild of the London Symphony Orchestra:

[kingrob76]

The easiest way to answer this question is to make a list of things that matter, in the order that they matter to you. For example, here's my off the cuff list in my order:

- Do I enjoy playing it? If that isn't the case, I'll avoid playing it.
- Do I sound good on it? I trust my own ears but welcome the feedback of others while still recognizing they have their own biases.
- Does it make sense for the playing I do? I might really like playing a sousaphone but it probably wouldn't go over at a quintet gig. That YFB-621 was a neat horn to own but it really wouldn't have done the job for something like Tchaik 5.
- Does it logistically make sense? Does it fit in my car, is it unwieldy to move from point A to point B, is it overly fragile, etc.
- Is it a good investment? Am I guaranteed to lose money on this horn and if so how much, or am I comfortable in knowing that it will break even or appreciate?

My Kalison Pro 2000 checked boxes 2 and 5 but that was about it. I tried more than once to drive it in smaller settings and didn't like it for that, so away it went. My 1291 checked all the boxes for about 10 years and then box 1 dropped off the list. I would have LOVED to have kept it as a 4.5/4 do-all grab-and-go horn but at the time my finances didn't support buying a new horn without selling my old one. I was bored and restless so out it went, although if I was picking today the 1293 would probably catch my first glance over a 1291.

Interesting thing about the 1291 - I flew out to WWBW to pick mine, and after an hour didn't enjoy playing ANY of them. Then I hit on the one I purchased. Instant handshake for me. But even after I bought it it took me several months to find a mouthpiece that worked for me (Giddings Baer MMVI) to get *just* the right sound and feel.

Determine YOUR criteria, prioritize them for YOU and then let that be your guide. Take as many "I just wanna" factors out of the process as possible. You'll notice "cool" never showed up on my list :-) I'd play a pink tuba with sparkles and unicorns on it if it sounded like the best horn on the planet.

[bloke]

I respect your system and this post is not put in place to mock it at all, but I’ve never made a punch list for purchasing an instrument.
That sounds like a pretty good idea, but I just don’t believe that my brain works that way.
My most recent purchase is one that I have hoped I could make for the better part of a decade, but biding my time waiting for a price that would work for me on that model in a certain condition.
I played one for about three minutes and knew that it would be great for me.
Other instruments are ones that I bought because they intrigued me, and then – once bought – I decided to keep them as my own, rather than flip them.
My F tuba was bought new four decades ago and was just blind stupid luck. I knew I wanted that model, there’s no way that I could have just walked up to one that plays as well as well as this one, particularly as - in the early 80s - they were not common in the United States. Mine – as an example - was brought to me in the belly of an airplane from someone who lived in Berlin and bullsh!tted their way with it past US customs agents.
————
There might be one thing, though:
Me? I’m a bottom feeder, but I’m a bottom feeder in the upper range of instruments. I’m also a realist, and know that instruments in the quality range I demand for myself are not going to be in pawnshops for $2500. Further, I know that if my maximum price range (though I could set it higher) is always something that I’m going to set about $3000 below the lowest prices I ever see, that I’m going to end up with screwball/oddball instruments that other people sold for specific reasons. (Does that sound familiar, Brett ?)

[donn]

We're artists, are we not? Scientifically decide which tuba I like? I think in this matter I can be forgiven for being a science denier.