Why F Tuba?

[Stryk]

First, let me say that I think the F tuba is the spawn of Satan. I have an ok F (Dalyan Chinese one). I am starting to get the hang of it, but more than ever, I am wondering why anyone would need one. Help me out here. I can't play as high or as low as on my full size C tubas, nor does ANYTHING sound better. In fact, I can play higher with a better tone on my 184 C. Other than "My professor told me I needed one", what is the reasoning?

[LeMark]

more nimble

More security in the high range

less "tubby" for solos

that's why I have an Eb I hardly play, so maybe the question should be "why bass tuba?"

[Stryk]

more nimble

More security in the high range

less "tubby" for solos

that's why I have an Eb I hardly play, so maybe the question should be "why bass tuba?"

So far, I have not found that high range, much less the security! I took pictures of it this morning with the intent of trying to trade it for an Eb, but I spent an hour playing it.....not sure I even want a decent Eb I'm sure most anything out there would be a better F than what I have, but it's not a bad horn - it's that I am a horrible F player.

[matt g]

I think you might come to a different conclusion with a F tuba of equal quality to the 184. A proper F (or Eb) tuba will simply be more secure in the upper register than a contrabass, especially with tired chops. Paired with a proper bass tuba mouthpiece, it’s simply insurance when the literature demands a lot of high register playing.

A really good bass tuba can render a contrabass moot for most of the orchestral literature. I certainly wouldn’t want to play Symphony Fantastique on pretty much any CC tuba.

[LeMark]

Funny, I played that last year with my Symphony, and I could have used my Eb, but I played it on my CC because that's how I learned it, and I didn't want to relearn the fingerings for the end (which couldn't be more easy than on a CC tuba)

[bloke]

These golf clubs are STUPID!
All they do is hit the ball way off to the left, way off to the right, or not at all. I can hit the little dimpled ball just fine with a baseball bat or a shovel, so what the hell are these STUPID golf clubs for?
Oh…and by the way… Everyone who knows about these PARTICULAR golf clubs agrees that they are not very good golf clubs.

[Doc]

First, let me say that I think the F tuba is the spawn of Satan. I have an ok F (Dalyan Chinese one). I am starting to get the hang of it, but more than ever, I am wondering why anyone would need one. Help me out here. I can't play as high or as low as on my full size C tubas, nor does ANYTHING sound better. In fact, I can play higher with a better tone on my 184 C. Other than "My professor told me I needed one", what is the reasoning?

It’s agile, facile, and mobile...

Sure, the low range can be challenging depending on the model, but the agility, facility, and mobility (not really a factor for me) are an advantage can make it worthwhile. You have to approach it like it’s a different beast. It’s not a contrabass, it’s not a euphonium, and you can’t try to play it like either one. It is its own thing with a unique approach.

I was never told I had to buy one, but I was playing literature that made F tuba a good choice. With the exception of a couple years in which I only had one tuba, I’ve had an F tuba in the lineup for 30 years.

Playing various forms of German brass band music, Oktoberfest music, etc., F tuba is the perfect choice. I play the top part in the brass band (traditionally F tuba), and in the small groups, the F tuba is facile/light on its feet (another common German thing).

I played a brass band gig on July 4. My section mate couldn’t make it, so I played the Hagen to hold down the bottom. It worked wonderfully. Perfect. Even posted a couple vids to hear the sound (lots of Paulaner consumed, btw). But during the breaks, we have a trio that plays. One of the flugels is an all-star accordion player I’ve worked with forever (using F tuba). He and I and the drummer play some trio stuff and show off a bit. I played as light and fast as I could, but the big sound was overwhelming, and it sounded cumbersome in the videos my wife took. F tuba is the better tool for that job. I’d have taken it along, but I had an upright bass gig immediately afterward, so I had to carry along a bass, amp, cords, etc.

@bloke
I did take the 186 to a private gathering for the brass band and family members. Played for about an hour with the accordion. Everyone LOVED the sound of that tuba. The bandleader (tpt) is a Miraphone man from way back, and he was thoroughly impressed with the sound as well as the look. Many compliments came your way for the work you did. And the tuba is facile and agile. I still prefer the extra ease of F tuba for the small stuff, but the 186 delivered. Then again, it’s a pretty special 186!

[Stryk]

These golf clubs are STUPID!
All they do is hit the ball way off to the left, way off to the right, or not at all. I can hit the little dimpled ball just fine with a baseball bat or a shovel, so what the hell are these STUPID golf clubs for?
Oh…and by the way… Everyone who knows about these PARTICULAR golf clubs agrees that they are not very good golf clubs.

Don’t get me started on golf, I’m about as successful with it as I am with the F tuba!

[humBell]

These golf clubs are STUPID!
All they do is hit the ball way off to the left, way off to the right, or not at all. I can hit the little dimpled ball just fine with a baseball bat or a shovel, so what the hell are these STUPID golf clubs for?
Oh…and by the way… Everyone who knows about these PARTICULAR golf clubs agrees that they are not very good golf clubs.

Evokes images of that one Adam Sandler movie... Happy Gilmore?

Sadly i got a bad habit of taking metaphors literally, and the one F tuba i have gotten my hands on is one of the few tubas i actually think i could fit snugly in a golf bag... I could be a musical caddy! "Might i suggest, sir the #5 Wood along with the Chaconne from the first movement of Holst's First Suite? That should put you back on the fairway..."

Anyway, I'm gonna give that F tuba a bit more attention than i have of late, and see what sounds i can eek out of it.

Will report back when i know something... (not that not knowin' stuff as ever stopped me from sharin' my flavor of ignorance)

[Rick Denney]

Keep working on it.

But it does make me wonder if your Dalyan F tube has a leak somewhere. I’m mean, I get the notion that the low range is harder. But I was more secure on high notes starting about 12 seconds into playing my first F tuba, and that four-valve Musica was certainly no better than a Dalyan.

Rick “it’s about clarity and song” Denney

[the elephant]

Terry, it sounds to me like you have quite a dud, there, man. Dalyan stopped making tubas and the factory was retasked to make stuff like car bumpers and such, I seem to remember. A lot of F tubas suck. Try to find one that doesn't and then pass judgment on the species.

I use F tuba for about 55% to 60% of my work. They are pretty useful when you find one you like. The good ones tend to be quite expensive, though. A very friendly one is the Yamaha YFB-621. It has some weird pitch issues and some play quite sharp for some reason. The very upper register is not as solid as on other horns, but it is fully functional without special, magical training. Perhaps you can find one near you and ask to play on it for an hour at the owner's house (or wherever s/he would prefer?

[Yorkboy]

*

[tubanh84]

I have always found that if I play my CC exclusively for a period of time, my F tuba is a worse horn when I come back to it. Specifically the intonation. Likewise, if I play F exclusively for a period of time, my CC tuba is a worse horn when I come back to it. Specifically the intonation.

Once I am back to playing either of them regularly, though, the horns re-learn how to play in tune and they re-learn how to have a good sound up and down the registers.

Tongue-in-cheek aside, F and CC are very different instruments and require you to play differently. I'm willing to bet that if I somehow tested it, I play them 99% the same way. But that 1% feels huge. I've been lucky in that I've only played 2 F tubas exclusively since I was 18 - a PT10 for 3 years and a MW182 ever since. They were both very good horns, so I haven't had to put up with a lot of the struggles other horns create.

[Stryk]

Terry, it sounds to me like you have quite a dud, there, man. Dalyan stopped making tubas and the factory was retasked to make stuff like car bumpers and such, I seem to remember. A lot of F tubas suck. Try to find one that doesn't and then pass judgment on the species.

I use F tuba for about 55% to 60% of my work. They are pretty useful when you find one you like. The good ones tend to be quite expensive, though. A very friendly one is the Yamaha YFB-621. It has some weird pitch issues and some play quite sharp for some reason. The very upper register is not as solid as on other horns, but it is fully functional without special, magical training. Perhaps you can find one near you and ask to play on it for an hour at the owner's house (or wherever s/he would prefer?

I had a friend that tried it and said it was fine - I’m convinced it is me - will plug away to some extent. If I get too frustrated ...... car bumpers, huh? ..... it would look unique as one!

[bloke]

You've been though a bunch, Terry...but you've got things about under control, just lately, yes?

I never hear of you going to any tuba shindigs and trying out a bunch of tubas.

What if the only C tuba someone ever played was one of those early 21st C. eBay-offered "Cb tubas" ...??

F tubas in general:

They are not contrabass tubas, and they are not euphoniums.
Further, they're not poofy E-flat tubas, either.
Play them "as is" and with "mouthpieces on hand", and you get what you get.

golf - and with crappy golf clubs:
Try it out once every few months, and you get what you get.

F tubas:
THE MOST HONEST tubas, there are...garbage-in/garbage-out ...or otherwise.



My gigs have shifted - and continue to shift (lately: "little or nothin' " thanks to...nevermind )...

I don't use my F-tuba (as I once did) for my than half of my gigs, but I DO play it at home more than half the time.
I'm not Alan Baer, but I'm pretty sure that he's stated that he does the same.
Contrabass tubas came later, and are over-the-top/larger-than-life tubas, just as are contrabass anythings...
Playing contrabass tubas all the time sort of puts me in a rut of drilling over-the-top playing techniques (to continue to tame over-the-top tubas) and (well...) technical execution issues trumping musical issues.

[the elephant]

Terry, it sounds to me like you have quite a dud, there, man. Dalyan stopped making tubas and the factory was retasked to make stuff like car bumpers and such, I seem to remember. A lot of F tubas suck. Try to find one that doesn't and then pass judgment on the species.

I use F tuba for about 55% to 60% of my work. They are pretty useful when you find one you like. The good ones tend to be quite expensive, though. A very friendly one is the Yamaha YFB-621. It has some weird pitch issues and some play quite sharp for some reason. The very upper register is not as solid as on other horns, but it is fully functional without special, magical training. Perhaps you can find one near you and ask to play on it for an hour at the owner's house (or wherever s/he would prefer?

I had a friend that tried it and said it was fine - I’m convinced it is me - will plug away to some extent. If I get too frustrated ...... car bumpers, huh? ..... it would look unique as one!

My point is that you need to try the Yamaha or other "easy" horns to see what it is all about. THEN the Dalyan will become a bit easier to understand. The little Yamaha can teach you the lighter touch and blow needed, so that then the low range on the Dalyan will be easier to understand. Some tubas just have difficult to access upper registers, usually due to poor quality control, and an F tuba that is harder to play up high than a C tuba (on the same pitches) needs to be checked very carefully, mayby internally with a borescope.

I owned two F tubas at one time, and Bydlo was a cinch on one and next to impossible on the other. That same "bad" F also nearly lacked a usable high F, of all things. I sold it off quickly at a slight loss and considered it a lesson learned about sight-unseen purchases based on "recommendations".

Some horns are just poorly built, and those Dalyan tubas were sometimes pretty bad.

[Brendan Bohnhorst]

I have always found that whatever I buzz into the mouthpiece is what comes out of the bell on my F tuba. The tuba doesn't do anything to help me. This is what I believe that Bloke is talking about;

THE MOST HONEST tubas, there are...garbage-in/garbage-out ...or otherwise.

Some tubas will steer you towards a pitch, and an F tuba generally lets you drive anywhere you point it. And to me, that is kind of the point of using one.

That being said, a good F tuba will sound completely different that any contrabass tuba. I don't think that most Eb's can have the same color of sound. But that has more to do with them being designed to do different things well.

At the end of the day it is still a tuba and it is a tool to play music on. If it isn't the right tool for you, that is OK. I have always believed that you should be able to play any piece of music on any horn regardless of key. That doesn't mean that I am going to play something like "the ride" with an orchestra on my F tuba, but you should be able to. After all, it is still just a tuba.

[martyneilan]

First, let me say that I think the F tuba is the spawn of Satan. I have an ok F (Dalyan Chinese one)... Other than "My professor told me I needed one", what is the reasoning?

No offense, but that is your problem right there. Find a GOOD F tuba. I can play just as high on most CC tubas, but the F tuba has a lyrical quality that most contrabass tubas in that register are lacking. Everything from Bach cello suites to Mozart horn concerti will take on a whole different meaning with a (good) F tuba.
Consider this: A compensating Euphonium can play just as low as a 3 valve BBb tuba. So can a double trigger bass trombone. But nearly everything about the character of sound will be different.

[LeMark]

I have to agree that the problem may be the tuba. Even on my home made Eb frankentuba I can play a bit higher with more security and accuracy than on my best CC tuba.

playing a bass tuba should be fun, like running a block after losing 100 pounds

Are you using a mouthpiece appropriate for the F tuba?

[Stryk]

Spent a little time today playing a couple CB quintets. I can see how the upper (top half and above) staff notes could be easier. Maybe I am starting to see the light, not sure though - I am still fighting the fingerings!