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Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:29 pm
by Grumpikins
Im sure this has been talked about before, but im new here and my search feature brings up everything except what i search for so.... Are there any manufacturers in the continental US making Tubas? As in starting with base materials and fabricating the entire horn. Not sourcing and importing components from elsewhere and then assembling them.
Im not anti-foreign products. Im just pro-domestic.
I would absolutely love to see a re-institution of the HNWhite factory or Holton or Conn manufacturing entirely within the US!
Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:24 pm
by bloke
Almost full size Conn, a compact full size King, and possibly a 3/4 King.
Build quality is good enough for schools.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:33 pm
by arpthark
Don't forget all the shiny new soozafones.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:08 am
by bloke
arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:33 pm
Don't forget all the shiny new soozafones.
yeah...super thin walled, with "curious" valves.
There's also a resin (doesn't seem to be fiberglass, though I may be wrong...??) one as well.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:33 am
by YorkNumber3.0
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Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:24 am
by hrender
Lee Stofer is still making his CC horns, although it's artisanal work vs. mass manufacture.
https://tubameister.com/new-instruments/
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:50 am
by Three Valves
Grumpikins wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:29 pm
I would absolutely love to see a re-institution of the HNWhite factory or Holton or Conn manufacturing entirely within the US!
Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk
I think Big Mouth Brass shipped the tooling to China. We’d have to get it back.
Though it may be better to start anew.
It’s hard to say if lack of innovation started the decline or if it was a result of the decline of USA instrument making.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:35 am
by LeanneDBB
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:24 pm
Almost full size Conn, a compact full size King, and possibly a 3/4 King.
Build quality is good enough for schools.
Do we know that Conn is using domestic brass & all US manufactured components? I know they import components for local assembly of many of their instruments
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:23 pm
by matt g
Does Lee have the mandrels and whatnot to make the complete tuba, or did he buy up a bunch of parts when Getzen was shutting down the line?
If I was making money playing, I’d be tempted to seek one of these out.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:11 pm
by DonO.
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:24 pm
Almost full size Conn, a compact full size King, and possibly a 3/4 King.
Build quality is good enough for schools.
Of course bloke is referring to the Conn 5J, the King 2341, and the King 1135 3-valve. Not sure whether they still make the 1140 (3 upright valves instead of front). All of these are Conn/Selmer group products. True, they are all aimed at the school market. But I think the King 2341 punches above its weight class. This is my only horn, and it’s all the horn I need. Keep in mind I am not a professional, and I would own a different horn if I was. But the King has a lot going for it. Almost plug and play intonation wise, gorgeous tone, and fairly easy playability. I wish there was some more nickel silver trim and also slides. Everything is literally brass everywhere, except the lead pipe is nickel silver which is cool. I bought mine before they jacked up the price this year. I got an excellent deal and it is a wonderful horn for what I paid. At todays prices, I would put a little more money in the pot and buy a Miraphone 186 instead.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:16 pm
by bort2.0
matt g wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:23 pm
Does Lee have the mandrels and whatnot to make the complete tuba, or did he buy up a bunch of parts when Getzen was shutting down the line?
If I was making money playing, I’d be tempted to seek one of these out.
Parts
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:32 pm
by matt g
DonO. wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:11 pm
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:24 pm
Almost full size Conn, a compact full size King, and possibly a 3/4 King.
Build quality is good enough for schools.
Of course bloke is referring to the Conn 5J, the King 2341, and the King 1135 3-valve. Not sure whether they still make the 1140 (3 upright valves instead of front). All of these are Conn/Selmer group products. True, they are all aimed at the school market. But I think the King 2341 punches above its weight class. This is my only horn, and it’s all the horn I need. Keep in mind I am not a professional, and I would own a different horn if I was. But the King has a lot going for it. Almost plug and play intonation wise, gorgeous tone, and fairly easy playability. I wish there was some more nickel silver trim and also slides. Everything is literally brass everywhere, except the lead pipe is nickel silver which is cool. I bought mine before they jacked up the price this year. I got an excellent deal and it is a wonderful horn for what I paid. At todays prices, I would put a little more money in the pot and buy a Miraphone 186 instead.
IMO, the difference between the King and Miraphone amount to the differences between a Ford Focus and a VW Golf. Similar with respect to pretty much all the stats, just a little different to drive.
Both the 2341 and the 186 play well in tune, respond well, and are serviceable. The Miraphone might look a little prettier due to the nickel trim and wreath.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:16 pm
by tofu
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Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:45 pm
by matt g
Also similar to the Ford Focus…
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:59 pm
by jtm
Every time there's a thread like this, I'm glad I don't have to figure out how to repeatedly find decent affordable new tubas for students. I'm happy with my tubas, but I'd be in trouble if someone told me to find 10 more of the same thing at a good price.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:44 am
by DonO.
Of course I’m aware that the build quality of Miraphone outclasses the King! But when I bought my 2341, mine was literally half the price of a 186. I didn’t find that anything on mine needed to be “rebuilt”, other than the fact that the pistons were rough. I suppose I could have had the valves worked on, but the valves were addressed in the paperwork that came with the horn. Also they acknowledged that there may be debris from the building process in there. The company says to clean out the valve casings for a couple of weeks while the valves are being broken in. It was more than a couple of weeks, it was more like a couple of months, but the valves are silky smooth now. Other than that, I have no complaints. I know it’s no Miraphone, but it’s a nice horn for the price I paid. Of course, now that Conn/Selmer has majorly jacked up their prices, a 2341 now is 90% of the price of a 186. They are no longer the bargain they once were.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:39 am
by 2nd tenor
We see it throughout the western world: the decline of manufacturing due to plain and simple short term greed.
Short term decisions to maximise this year’s profits and share price mean than companies don’t invest in better labour, don’t invest in better manufacturing equipment and don’t pay sufficient attention to quality control. We allow cheap imports from other countries, with whom we’ll never compete on labour costs, and don’t see the bigger picture of how that’s going to damage employment in our own countries.
The UK once sold brass instruments all over the world and did so for decades, now we make next to nothing and if I wanted a new Sovereign it would be made in Germany - or be a Chinese ‘knock-off’ copy. If you want a quality instrument it’ll be expensive, more so than I think it should be, and likely made in Germany where they have some better handle on investment and quality.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:01 pm
by The Big Ben
I owned a 1140 at one time. It played fine. The MSRP on the 2341, 1135 and 1140 seem too be way too high compared with Chinese offerings. The 2341 is almost $10K and the 1135/40 are over $6K. Equivalent instruments from other manufacturers are as much as 40% cheaper. "Made in USA" sells in the school situation but, in reality, they are not made in USA.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:25 pm
by matt g
Sometimes companies during times of inflation will raise prices rather steeply for two main reasons:
1. Cover future costs without having to increment prices. Even yearly price increases are a pain to deal with.
2. There’s a bit of marketing/psychology at play when prices are on the rise and one can discount prices from list a bit more. Raise prices a good bit but also discount more when the real inquiries come in: sometimes motivates people to buy a bit more when funds might be tight.
Re: Current, US tuba manufacturing?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:19 pm
by jonesbrass
DonO. wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:44 am
I didn’t find that anything on mine needed to be “rebuilt”, other than the fact that the pistons were rough. I suppose I could have had the valves worked on, but the valves were addressed in the paperwork that came with the horn. Also they acknowledged that there may be debris from the building process in there. The company says to clean out the valve casings for a couple of weeks while the valves are being broken in. It was more than a couple of weeks, it was more like a couple of months, but the valves are silky smooth now.
This has been my experience with every instrument I’ve ever owned or played. Rotary or piston, American, German, Swiss, a Chinese . . . It takes time and regular cleaning to get and keep valves in top playing condition. Doesn’t hurt to do the same to the slides, either.