Ebay: Nickel silver Alexander 163

[TheHatTuba]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285472756987?h ... Sw90Nk3Eos
I like the contrarian nickel silver instrument with brass leadpipe. Always wanted to try one of these.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[TheHatTuba]

Didn't notice that until now.

[bort2.0]

Nickel plating is different than nickel silver...

Nickel plating is nickel, over top of normal brass.
Nickel silver (which isn't actually silver at all) is a metal that's used instead of brass.

From what I understand, nickel silver is very difficult to work with, part of the reason you don't see it used so much. My beloved old Miraphone 188 had a nickel silver valve section, which is the ultimate in corrosion resistance. But the rest of the horn was brass. I'm not even sure if a tuba COULD be made fully out of nickel silver, the bell, bows, etc... physically possible?

My guess -- it's all silver plated brass, and this is something lost in translation.
Second place guess, it's silver plated brass, with a nickel silver valve section
Third guess, separate from the nickel silver, is that a replacement leadpipe (unfortunately in raw brass) was used to better the intonation from the original leadpipe.

Whatever it is, I bet it sounds great.

[TheHatTuba]

There were definitely a few Alexander tubas made from nickel silver. tuben from the old forum (gone, is he here?) used to talk about his and the history of the horns. Supposedly the builders had to be brided for the reason you mentioned: very diifcult to work with. I think he mentioned the horn was a bit slow to respond but impossible to outblow.

[Stryk]

Plated....

[TheBerlinerTuba]

This particular Alexander is a nickelplated yellow brass body which was quite common in the german, dutch and belgian military windbands, among others.

There have been a number of tubas made from almost 100% nickelsilver since the tuba was invented. Perhaps a good example would be the tubas/basses used in the USA Civil War.

Regarding Alexander, I've seen nickelsilver tubas in F/CC/BBb over the years. Its exactly as TheHatTuba says, the response is a bit slower than a brass tuba, however they have a lovely tone, abeit rather monochromatic and it takes a good deal more power to edge it out. One of the best played examples was by Michael Lind in Sweden on his Alex F.

Nickelsilver as a bell and bow material is more difficult than yellowbrass in that it work hardens far quicker. Usually with leadpipes it's not an issue, but for larger bows, you might have to stop and melt the lead out to reanneal and refill with lead before continuing to bend. If you dont do this, it will often crack and nickelsilver is too expensive to mess around with. While not really more challenging, it's much more time consuming. For most makers, there is no real benefit and most workshops don't offer this option. There is a maker in Bavaria who makes very highly regarded Baritones and Flügelhorns out of nickelsilver.
Cheers from Berlin
TheBerliner Tuba

[jtm]

From what I understand, nickel silver is very difficult to work with, part of the reason you don't see it used so much. My beloved old Miraphone 188 had a nickel silver valve section, which is the ultimate in corrosion resistance. But the rest of the horn was brass. I'm not even sure if a tuba COULD be made fully out of nickel silver, the bell, bows, etc... physically possible?

The Conn 8D French horn has always been available in solid nickel silver. Not quite the same, but it suggests you could make a tuba that way.

[dp]

Ted C had (has?) a german silver Alex for a long time, I had one here also for a while when I was shopping for a big rotary it was a tank but still the best 163 I ever played except for maybe Bragunier's which was probably 10 pounds lighter and not just because the top bow was so thin it had a hole worn through it! During a slow period with work I sent the nickel Alex back to the seller, then I got a rotary PT6. No comparisons, I wouldn't dream of shopping for a different big rotary tuba now. The horn in the eBay ad is not one of those solid nickel silver ones. For your money I'd get one of the new 163s at Horn Guys in California before I'd pay 12 grand for the eBay horn, even though the PT is a better horn. -30-

[Stryk]

the PT is a better horn. -30-[/size]

I call you on that opinion.

[bort2.0]

Thanks, Dale, for reminding me I never should have sold my PT6. Like yours, mine was older and handmade... an incredible tuba.

I liked the Alex, too... but that old 6 was smokin!

[Stryk]

the PT is a better horn. -30-[/size]

I call you on that opinion.

Now, if you are talking about the OLD Alex, I'd agree with you. I would rank them like this - including the MRP....
1. NEW Alex
2. MRP
3. PT6
4. OLD Alex

I have a friend with a MRP and it is a truly awesome horn - just too much horn for me!!

[bloke]

- It's silver plated brass - not nickel-brass (aka not "nickel-silver/German silver")
- I wouldn't choose any of those listed.
- If we're discussing C instruments in that approximate size range, I would have stuck with what I had (not necessarily the model in general, but that particular instrument).
- The more new Alex C's that I play (and they are few-and-far-between in the USA), the more I notice that the tuning problems of old are only somewhat addressed.
- From that list, I believe I might pick the PT-6 (rotary) were I offered my choice of any of those four on permanent loan. I've heard some wonderful PT-6 sounds from the balcony seats (Jeff Anderson - who, I believe, is currently on a for-the-sake-of-something-different 6/4 outing). They've also impressed me when I've (only three or four of them, to date) played them myself. MRP tubas (from the few that I've played) seem to be a bit like half-size-up 188 tubas (to me)...with some of the same things (though mostly good/great things) that I don't care for re: 188 tubas.
- Really great B-flat tubas often sound better and are easier to play in tune that some of the best C instruments, but more precision (air/buzz frequency/legato finesse) is also often required - when playing large B-flat tubas - on the players' part...and I'm not denigrating any great players (and certainly none from my long list of betters) who use C instruments.
- "Every tuba has someone's name on it." - Matt Walters

THE MOST "political" thing discussed here is when models are compared - as far as how worthwhile they are - and what they're worth in money.

[jtm]

Thanks, Dale, for reminding me I never should have sold my PT6. Like yours, mine was older and handmade... an incredible tuba.

I liked the Alex, too... but that old 6 was smokin!

How many tubas should you never have sold?

[bort2.0]

Thanks, Dale, for reminding me I never should have sold my PT6. Like yours, mine was older and handmade... an incredible tuba.

I liked the Alex, too... but that old 6 was smokin!

How many tubas should you never have sold?

Honestly, it might only be that PT-6. I sold many tubas, and I miss a lot of them... but I had good (musical/tuba) reasons for selling them. Even my beloved old 188, I sold because it wasn't filling my needs very well. Playing it as an only tuba in a large/loud band was simply too much work!

But the PT-6... I sold it to get $ for the downpayment for my house. There was really no other reason to sell it, it was absolutely fantastic. The house is a buy-low/sell-high kind of situation here, so we're doing really well in that regard... but that tuba is long-gone. Oh well. Not like I'd be playing or using it right now anyway!

[TheHatTuba]

Weirdest thing about owning a PT6 was the number of people (ones I never associated with a PT6 before) I got to lend it to. Not sure if mine was hand hammered (certainly wasn't newer), but I wouldn't mind finding another eventually.

[dp]

the PT is a better horn. -30-[/size]

I call you on that opinion.

.........pfft

[Stryk]

.........pfft

[bloke]

Not to referee (nor interested in acquiring/championing either make), but dp has lived near a retail establishment with more-than-one (new) Alex on display, and did purchase a new Alex (C).