Kalison 2000 with trigger instead of 5th valve?

[donn]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174492662009/


The seller has no notion of what anyone would want to know about, doesn't have the answers anyway, and English doesn't seem to be his first language. The last two pictures were added in response to my inquiry, but only show the trigger, which was already visible in other pictures, and not what it does, but it looks like it's going to the main tuning slide.

It looks more or less like Kalison valves - not the valve caps so much, but the general layout - but this would be the only Kalison I've seen with no 5th valve, and the route from the leadpipe and tuning slide are different with the 5 valve layout.

There's a page out there advertising a BBb version - KALISON B-TUBA PROFESSIONAL 2000. If there's any reality to that at all (which I doubt), it would be one place I'd look for a 4-valve 2000. I mean, who needs 5 valves for a BBb tuba? But the valve tubing looks so similar to other 2000 photos that I suppose this is the usual CC.

It's in a Canadian town on the other side of the border from Buffalo, NY, if you're hot to have this crumpled thing and think you can get to it. If it's for real, it's Italian, so you know it's good. Don't know about the trigger, whether that's really a good alternative to a fifth valve.

[KingTuba1241X]

Wow a 6/4 horn that's only 35.5'' tall? yikes, pass. It looks interesting though. That case look broken up right where the bell is, maybe the reason why it's destroy like that.

[bloke]

The typical 6/4 piston tubas are only about 37 inches tall.

[KingTuba1241X]

2'' makes all the difference..just ask my...nevermind . In all seriousness this is why the newer Monster E flat Kings aren't appealing IMO, just picking them up off the floor or dumping water out from the top on the bell is impossible.

[Ricardo]

They did make a Bb, look at this ad and yes I confirmed with the seller that it was in fact a BBb and not a CC

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/diamond ... pasteboard

[the elephant]

The 4-valved BBb "Pro 2000" (actual model name) was a normal offering, despite the more popular seller being the 5-valved CC Pro 2000.

It is not really a 6/4 horn, but a 5/4 with a large, quickly expanding bell. [I think @martyneilan used to own one in CC, but it might have been the very different 2001.] I used to own a Daryl Smith and looked seriously at one of these. I liked it a lot, too. I did not get it because I did not have the money at that time. Once I did get the money I ended up with an Alexander 163.

This horn is like the 186/188 pairing with the Daryl Smith. The valve sections are pretty much the same. The bottom bow opens up a lot faster and the bell is a lot larger. It is shorter, as a result (or it would be very flat). The one I tested had the weird "Kalison High Ab" problem. My personal DS did not have any real issues. I do not think the BBb horns have this issue on the high Gb, but I have never played the BBb horn, so I don't really know. I *do* know that very few of the BBb Pro 2000 horns made it to the US. Tuba Exchange used to import them, and they did not push that model at all.

I would sure like to give this horn a play-test. I bet it would be fun.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

At the same time (mid-90s) the US Air Force Band owned four Darryl Smith model CC tubas, I believe the Marine Band "President's Own" had one or two of the Pro 2000 BBb tubas. Too many years in the meantime may have clouded my memory.

[the elephant]

I seem to remember the USAF band having those DS tubas in 1993. I also remember seeing the Marines with at least one Pro 2000 while on tour in 1994 or 1995. I think you might be correct, sir.

[KingTuba1241X]

They did make a Bb, look at this ad and yes I confirmed with the seller that it was in fact a BBb and not a CC

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/diamond ... pasteboard

A fantastic looking horn for sure. Probably heavy as hell.

[DandyZ629]

They did make a Bb, look at this ad and yes I confirmed with the seller that it was in fact a BBb and not a CC

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/diamond ... pasteboard

A fantastic looking horn for sure. Probably heavy as hell.

Actually the opposite. All the Kalison's i've played have been very light with a really fantastic sound.

[KingTuba1241X]

They did make a Bb, look at this ad and yes I confirmed with the seller that it was in fact a BBb and not a CC

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/diamond ... pasteboard

A fantastic looking horn for sure. Probably heavy as hell.

Actually the opposite. All the Kalison's i've played have been very light with a really fantastic sound.

Good to know, but that bell in the OP's link is trash. It's probably going to need replacing/custom bell put on, if you see the picture further down the line, don't think that's gonna be an easy fix and sure won't ever look normal again.

[bort2.0]

I like it.

[groovlow]

Hey Donn
Welcome to TF!!!
Good to have your voice here.
coffee?
Joe H

[bloke]

CKtuba is nuts for those things...assuming it's the model he really likes...

[bloke]

Is the bell any worse looking any other angles than shown in this picture?
It makes me chuckle to see that someone thinks it’s trashed, and needs to be replaced.
If it ends up in the states - and within driving distance of me - bring it, and I’ll straighten it out (nicely). Frankly, I’d like to toot on it.

[cktuba]

I love the good Kalisons! Like Cerveny, play before you pay. I took a chance once and ended up with the horn I have now (which is great). But, as a general rule, play it first...

The good DS horns have excellent intonation-- Miraphone 188/MW Thor. level good. And I like the sound better than the 188; a little more beef on the low end.

The good Pro 2000 horns have a fantastic sound and response. The intonation is pretty good, for a horn that large, but not DS/188/Thor good. Although, I've never spent any significant time on a Kalison BBb.

I will say... the bells are very thin and malleable and I've seen Kalison bells in worse condition repaired with good results.

If I could get to it and I had the money...

[donn]

... But the valve tubing looks so similar to other 2000 photos that I suppose this is the usual CC.

They did make a Bb, look at this ad and yes I confirmed with the seller that it was in fact a BBb and not a CC

Ha ha, that was the picture I was looking at when I decided this Canada tuba was CC - just didn't notice that the Australia ad says BBb. It's good to confer with people who pay more attention to what they're seeing than I do.

Interesting ...

[KingTuba1241X]

Is the bell any worse looking any other angles than shown in this picture?
It makes me chuckle to see that someone thinks it’s trashed, and needs to be replaced.

One of the photos shows a HUGE cave/dent in the front of the bell, then another photo in the same spot shows much LESS of a large dent like someone was being sneaky and popped it out somehow I don't know, the angle possibly but doesn't look the same. Either way, that's gonna have some big stretch marks if repaired and the back side of the bell lip will be a bit out of round permanently. Kind of a pet peeve about our of round bell edges.

[the elephant]

There is nothing unusual in that bell damage. It is very straightforward work to fix that to a very high state, rim wire included — if you are experienced at working on tuba bells. If this were on my bench I would remove the bell and roll it out on a Fast Eddie or burnish it over a bell iron, and then run it through the Z-60 to smooth it all back out, nicely.

The refinishing is the crappy part, as the original lacquer is not very well applied, looks bad, and would be very hard to match. No matter what, you would be able to see where the new stuff had been applied. The question would be how much do you do? I would have to ask the customer for his specific wishes as I could not make the "industry standard" (ha!) rattle can Nikolas match that mess at all. Even running the Nikolas clear stuff through a spray rig would make the final result look bad, no matter how brilliant the dent work might have been.

If it were *my* horn I would, of course, strip that nasty lacquer off, baby! Problem solved!

[donn]

Gosh, it would be a shame to mess up that lacquer -



In the past I've been perfectly happy to leave the lacquer alone after a roll that leaves those stretch marks in it, but that was '70s Miraphone lacquer, with no defects that I recall, other than the stretch marks. When it gets like this, though ... I don't know, it might be necessary to get that lacquer off, to address the corrosion.